Fraternity hazing was one of the topics on 60 Minutes, Sunday, where Anderson Cooper spoke with Wynn Smiley, CEO of the Alpha Tau Omega fraternity organization, about the death of former Washington State University freshman, Sam Martinez.

The 19-year-old Martinez died of acute alcohol poisoning in 2019 while pledging the Alpha Tau Omega fraternity chapter, which had previously been disciplined for hazing in both 2013 and 2018. Martinez’s parents told Cooper that had some of that information been available on the fraternity’s website, perhaps they and their son could have been deterred from pledging, but Smiley wasn’t convinced.

“I don’t think undergraduates look at websites,” Smiley, causing Cooper to burst into laughter.

Smiley went on to say that they were looking at doing more with the website, but put his foot down when it comes to people asking his organization to more closely supervise what he calls, “self-governing, independent organizations.”

Cooper pointed out that Smiley’s organization could do more in terms of “adult supervision,” but that they are choosing not to embrace it.

“And if we thought that that would be effective, we may consider that,” Smiley said.

In July of this year, Alpha Tau Omega settled a lawsuit brought by Sam Martinez’ parents in 2020, but without admitting wrongdoing. Smiley says that while it was against the rules for fraternity members to provide alcohol to Sam, he wasn’t bullied or pressured into drinking the night he died.

“When push comes to shove, the pledges can stand up and say, ‘No,’” Smiley said, later adding. “Had he said, ‘No, I don’t want to drink,’ I’m confident that he would not have had to have drank.”